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David: Welcome back to Your Business on Newstalk SAUGA 960, I’m your host, David Wojcik.
We hear the term all too often. We hear the term culture thrown around. We hear progressive culture, toxic culture, great culture. But what is culture within the business environment, and how do we develop that culture that every employee engages with? To help us with the discussion is our HR guru, Liza Provenzano. Liza Provenzano is founder of CEO Spark HR, a human resources firm that focuses on helping Canadian businesses to become more successful through the performance of aligned, capable, and engaged teams. Liza is an experienced HR professional, bringing 20 years of practical HR perspectives and insights into the solutions that Spark HR offers clients, and Liza joins us on the phone today.
Hi Liza.
Liza: Hi, David. How are you today?
David: I am top drawer, thanks, Liza. How about yourself?
Liza: I’m the same. A good day.
[chuckling]
David: Liza, we talk about culture. Perhaps you can distill this down into a 30 second commercial on what is culture?
Liza: Culture, what is culture? It’s a big word, and what I would distill it down to, David, is what is happening, day-to-day, in your workplace? How you and your team get things done. How you work together. It comes down to the day-to-day behaviours and interactions. It’s the unspoken, I’ll say norms about how work gets done in any given workplace. It’s not what’s on – well, in some cases, it’s not what’s on, I’ll say a poster, or a website about values, it’s how those values are lived. That’s the real culture.
David: So let’s talk about, let’s move from the bad culture, or the toxic culture, and all the way through to great culture, and how we get there. So when people say, oh, it’s a toxic culture, what do they mean? What are they talking about?
Liza: Well, it can mean a variety of different things. What I think is common in that term, toxic culture – so let me back up for a moment. The experience of that can mean a variety of different things for people. But what is typically common in a toxic culture is that there is an experience of disrespect, or there is an experience of exclusion, or there is an experience of a lack of safety or trust in the workplace. So those are typically experiences or characteristics of a toxic workplace culture. Low levels of respect, low levels of trust, and low levels of safety.
David: One of the most difficult challenges for an HR professional, as I understand from speaking to many of them, is when you have to merge cultures. So a company, they either merge together, or one acquires the other one, and now you’ve got these two companies that may have been competing, being competitors, and they sell the same types of products to the same customers, and have the same vendors, and now they’ve put them together, but they are not the same when it comes to culture. How do leaders help those cultures come together? I mean, does one take over the one other, or is it a blend, or… how do you do it?
Liza: That’s a great scenario to talk about, David because I have seen situations in the past where two businesses come together, or even two teams have come together, even in, I’ll say a restructuring of sorts, and the leaders have not stopped to think about the cultural aspect of those groups coming together. And the failure to consider the implications of two different cultures coming together can be very damaging and unproductive to the individuals in the team. It could be very disruptive to that kind of change. So the first place, I think, is recognition that culture matters. Culture will impact the ability of a team to execute. So recognizing that and to step back and say, what are the cultures of these two businesses?
And there is the second piece. You mention, you know, they could put both cultures together, and they be a blend, or one culture is more dominant and takes over the other culture. There’s no right or wrong there, I think the point there is that it’s a conscious choice.
Maybe there’s a third option where it’s a very different culture that’s cultivated, that’s a combination or something different than the two of them put together. The key is that it’s a conscious choice that the desired culture is articulated, and there are systems and processes that are put in place to foster the desired culture, that leaders are demonstrating the values and behaviours that are needed for that desired culture.
So the thing is to choose it because so often it just sort of happens, and you’ve got a culture whether you want one or not, so we might as well choose them, and choose the culture that is going to best represent the workplace we want to create.
David: As leaders in business, as the senior management team in business, what’s the leaders’ responsibility for creating and maintaining that great culture that everybody wants to be a part of?
Liza: I think the leader starts in a place with being super clear on the purpose of the business. Why does this business exist? What’s our mandate, our mission? Where are we going? So vision, mission, purpose, and values. The values are the behaviours in action day-to-day. So being clear on those values that will enable that vision to be realized is where a leader starts. And then there is some self-reflection there for the leader. Because everyone is going to look to the leader as an example of those values in action. So for the leader to reflect and say, okay, what do I do really well? What do I need to do differently? And how do I need to grow and develop as a leader in order to do my best at modelling these values day-to-day? And then being able to support others in also demonstrating those same behaviours in their work, and being able to have the conversations with people when they are not demonstrating the behaviours that are representative of the core values that have been articulated. So those are some places to start.
And then I’ll go to systems and processes, and making sure that systems and processes, on your people side of your business, are enabling those behaviours. One example, David, is an employment handbook, or a policy handbook that many businesses have. How does that handbook, the tone of it, the content of it, demonstrate the values that are core to your business? So having those systems and practices to enable and support behaviours is another place leaders can go.
David: So we would hope that leaders don’t start off wanting to create a poor culture, or a toxic culture. I think everybody that has a business, runs a business as a leader, or a senior manager in a business, you know, they want to have harmony within their teams, they want people to get along, they want people to be able to perform their function, perform their job at 100% efficiency, and be able to utilize 100% of their capacity. In your experience, though, what are some of the pitfalls, what are some of the mistakes leaders make that they inadvertently create this non-energetic culture?
Liza: Yeah, I think one of the sort of blind spots that exist sometimes is that the values are not incorporated into decisions, they are not used as a filter for decisions, particularly tough decisions. And that’s presuming, of course, that the values are actually defined — identified and defined. So let’s assume that they are. Well, then, taking those values and bringing them into conversations around tough decisions. Bringing those values into performance feedback, and having, perhaps, some tough feedback that a leader has to give someone because their behaviour is not lining up with the values that are important.
So sometimes there are some blind spots that show up in decision making. Sometimes blind spots show up in performance feedback and some conversations that are avoided. And you are right, people don’t intend to miss these things. Notwithstanding those intentions, they do get missed.
David: You bring up a very important point about those tough conversations because creating that positive culture isn’t always about sunshine and lollipops and rainbows, and things like that. Creating that good culture that everybody understands what the expectations are, it’s a manager’s responsibility to have those tough and fierce conversations with people that are not doing what they are supposed to be doing, as well as, and many managers are guilty of not talking to people, and complimenting them when they are doing a job. So both sides of the equation. But if you don’t have those tough and fierce conversations with people that aren’t performing, all the ones around them that are performing say, well, what’s going on? Sally and Billy don’t have to do the job, why do I have to do it?
Liza: You’re absolutely right, David. The conversation to your point about the importance of that, I think those day-to-day conversations are the best opportunities for leaders to positively foster the culture that they want. And here’s why I think that. And this is from the work of Dr. Judith Glaser, and she did a lot of work around conversations in the workplace, and how it impacts relationships. The quality of the discussion that the leader is having with peers, with team members, the quality of those discussions, which may be tough discussions, will directly enhance or inhibit the relationship. And when the relationship is strengthened, then we are more in the direction of building the positive culture that we want.
So the discussion impacts the relationship, the relationship impacts the culture, and then, guess what, the culture impacts the result. So there’s the connection of day-to-day discussions to a business result. There’s a line, a direct line right there. And you are absolutely right that saying that a company has a positive culture doesn’t mean it’s all about a pool table and free bananas in the coffee area.
David: [chuckling]
Liza: It doesn’t mean that everybody is happy all the time. It means that those conversations that people are having are clear, and they are respectful, and they are focussed on action.
David: For leaders that might be struggling a little bit with understanding culture, how to develop a great one, what’s your piece of advice for them?
Liza: My piece of advice is twofold. One is to get the straight goods on what it’s like working in your business today. You know, ask your vendors, external vendors who work with you, or any external partners, what’s it like working with us? What do you find really positive about working with us? What do you find a challenge working with us? Those are signals around cultural challenges or cultural strengths. Ask your team members, what’s it like working here? When you talk about what it’s like to work here, what do you say to people? Would you recommend us as a place to work? Getting that feedback from them is good intelligence for where you are right now. So I would say to be realistic about where you are right now in terms of strengths and then in terms of opportunities.
And then the second thing I would say is to have one’s own self-reflection as a business owner or a leader, so to really know what is important to me, and how am I demonstrating the behaviours and actions, the values that I want to have in the workplace that I’m creating, or in the team that I’m leading.
David: Excellent.
Liza: Those two things.
David: Thanks, Liza. And if people want more information about Spark HR, what’s the website?
Liza: WWW.SPARKHR.CA.
David: Liza Provenzano, thanks so much for being with us today.
Liza: It’s a pleasure, David.
David: And thanks to you, our listeners.
